The 5 Questions Podcast
Join us as we unlock real estate and business insights, one question at a time.
The 5 Questions Podcast
Building a Real Estate Empire: Strategies, Challenges, and Triumphs with Lisa Michaud
Unlock the secrets to building a massive real estate empire with insights from Lisa Michaud, a seasoned investor boasting over 90 doors in her portfolio. Lisa takes us behind the scenes of her journey, sharing actionable strategies like house hacking, self-storage, and multifamily properties. Discover why multifamily investing stands out for its stability, diversification, and economies of scale, along with the power of commercial financing to propel portfolio growth beyond the limits of traditional residential methods.
Ever wondered how to successfully invest in real estate from afar? Join us for a humorous and enlightening discussion as we recount Troy's initial resistance to investing outside his hometown and the invaluable lessons learned over a decade of remote investing. We break down the essentials of assembling a rock-solid team, emphasizing the role of investor-focused realtors and competent property managers. Plus, we debunk common misconceptions about real estate investing, stressing the significance of strategic planning and resilience over the allure of quick riches.
Relive the highs and lows of our investing journey, from early missteps that cost us millions to the nail-biting experience of purchasing a 13-door building at the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. Lisa candidly shares how education, mentorship, and a clear vision were pivotal in scaling from 9 to over 90 doors in under four years. Finally, learn practical tips for networking and building genuine relationships within the real estate community, empowering you to add value and forge connections that drive success. Tune in for an episode packed with wisdom, humor, and real-world advice.
We can't understate that for sure. Like that is an absolute game changer and as soon as we understood that was a potential for us.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the five questions podcast, where we unlock real estate and business insights one question at a time. Welcome to the five questions podcast. I am your host, Mario Lamar. Today on our show, our guest is an active real estate investor for over 12 years. Her and her husband own over 90 doors, not counting all the joint ventures that they are involved in. They have started the Intentional Real Estate Investing Group, where they bring together investors, experts and professionals together to share their knowledge. Welcome to the show, Elisa Michaud.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. Thanks, margot, so happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Elisa, the concept of the podcast is really simple Five quick questions and we get straight to the point. You ready, let's do it All right. Question number one You've explored various real estate strategies building your portfolio, from house hacking to self-storage, to multifamily properties. Which strategy has been the most rewarding for you and why?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you said, we've definitely done a lot of different things. We've also done short-term rentals, we've done rent to own. I feel like we've tried almost everything in this process and for us, multifamily has, for sure, been the most rewarding. Self-storage, I'd say, is probably one of the easiest in terms of management. House hacking is probably the most accessible and a great starting point. But for us, multifamily is one that's been really personally and financially rewarding. So multifamily, we really love it because and like why it's so rewarding is because even like stability is a big value for my husband, for Troy If he was here he would tell you that and what we love about like each building, you actually have diversification within the assets.
Speaker 1:So when we own, for example, we do have a one short-term rental and when it's vacant, it's vacant. There's absolutely zero money coming in, whereas when we look at like a six-plex or a 10-unit building, if one or even two of those units is vacant, we still have 80 to 90% of the revenue still coming in. So that makes a lot of difference in terms of like stability, business planning, and just gives us that diversification that we're looking for in our portfolio. We also get economies of scale. So you know, with our short-term rental, whenever anything goes wrong on it like you know, the roof or electrical systems or plumbing or heating or whatever, like we have to redo it for each single family property. But when it comes to the multifamily, we're able to do one roof and maybe that will hit three units or six units or 20 units all at once, so there's a lot of economies of scale in there.
Speaker 1:There's also this is probably one of the biggest ones too is access to commercial financing. So for us and I think many investors face this challenge where you're investing and you're often starting out with residential financing, which is based on your personal income Well, each person, no matter whether you're making $50,000 or $500,000 or $5 million a year, you hit a ceiling, you hit a limit to how much the bank will lend you to continue to invest in properties, and so that, for us, was a really big challenge of like how do we get over this? How do we get over the ceiling, how do we break through it? And for us, that answer has been commercial financing.
Speaker 1:So commercial financing is different than residential, because residential is based on your personal income, whereas commercial financing, such as on a multifamily property, is based on the income of that property. So as long as the income and the expenses can support the mortgage, that you're actually making money on that property, you have the potential to have access to commercial financing, and in that case, there's no limit to how many or at least not that we've found yet at over 90 doors to how much you can purchase multifamily properties. So that combination of those three things have really allowed us to be able to scale, and when it comes to real estate investing, you need a blend of time and scale to be able to create freedom and financial independence, financial freedom and lifestyle freedom, and so this has allowed us to create a bit of both, and we've been able to accelerate faster and also have some of that stability along the way too.
Speaker 2:I speak to a lot of investors and that seems to be the common trend. Like multifamily because of the financing abilities. That's how they're able to grow their portfolio much more faster than purchasing single-family homes.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, it makes a huge difference. We can't understate that for sure. That is an absolute game-changer. And as soon as we understood that that was a potential for us and we had to get over a few mindset things in the process too because, you know, like cause it is a little bit more expensive, it does take more time, you do pay higher interest rates, like there was a couple hurdles that we needed to work through from becoming, you know, just real estate purchasers and becoming actual investors and understanding this as a business. But as soon as we did that, I mean we went from three doors to one door, to three doors, to nine doors, to 22 doors, up to 33 and then now over 90. So, like that really has been the accelerator that's allowed us to keep moving.
Speaker 2:That brings us to our question number two, the BRRRR method, which we're talking about scaling a portfolio. Brrrr method is commonly used for scaling portfolios. How have you applied this method to grow your portfolio and maybe what advice would you give it to investors looking to use it?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So for anyone who doesn't know, the BRRRR method is a term coined by Brandon Turner from BiggerPodkits. So it starts with B and then a bunch of R's. So it's buy, it's renovate, it's rent it out, refinance and then repeat. And the basic part of this method is that you're able to put your initial capital in to purchase a property, do the renovations, increase your income, decrease expenses through those renovations, adding value to that property through forced appreciation, and then be able to refinance the property Again. It's because of that forced appreciation that makes the difference. That means you've done something to the property to make it more valuable, not that you've, you know, hoped and prayed that the market will go up. Then you're able to refinance and at 75% loan to value, which is kind of typical, you might get a little less, you might get a little more. You're actually able to get your capital out again, which is that last R, to then go and take that same capital you used on the first property and go repeat that. So this is another game changer when you can do this. So I would say some of the.
Speaker 1:I mean I talk to a lot of real estate investors. We have a lot of clients that are scaling their multifamily portfolios, and so often the number one challenge is financing. It's like how do I get the financing? Well, one part of it is the mortgage, the commercial mortgage. The other part is like the down payment. Like, how do you continue to come up with that? The Burr method is something that allows you to take your initial capital and continue to reinvest it over time. So that's how, that's what we've done, that's what we've been able to do. I mean, it's also been a mix of our of our money too. We've been on a 12 year journey, so it's it's.
Speaker 2:There's been lots of different things we've done, but the Burr method has certainly in the last few years allowed us to accelerate that again. So somebody, somebody who knows how to use the different tools available out there because you know using the bank's money and then, like you said, using the same deposits or close to over and over, is a huge game changer for you know scaling. So the Burr method definitely is a good one.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you're talking about like, maybe it takes you a couple of years to save up $100,000, right. Then if you're again stuck having to wait several more years to save up another $100,000 and another $100,000, you know and there are some pieces here with Burr Method that are important to understand you know, especially if you're talking about commercial financing, it's usually a two to three year waiting period. So it's not like you're able to do this, you know, every month or something, or every six months or even every year. But if you're able to which we've done over time is save our own capital and have some capital in the BRRRR method and then repeat, so we're able to continue to use our capital and the BRRRR capital, if you will, and grow both at the same time, which allows us to scale. So, that being said, there are some things to really consider and some advice, because what we're not doing and you may have noticed, is we're not leaving a ton of money in the property, we're not building up that equity within the property. So there is, of course, that equity versus risk question that everyone has to answer. So you have to understand that. You have to understand that you're taking on more risk Because let's say, we buy a property for $100,000.
Speaker 1:We put in $100,000 and it's worth $400,000 at the end. We could just only owe $200,000 on a $400,000 property and 50% equity. But the Byrne method says, no, let's go capture that other 25% to get that 75% of loan to value. So we're gonna get the other $100,000 again back out, but now we owe, you know, $300,000 potentially on this $400,000 property. So you don't have as much equity. So I think that's important to just understand for context what that looks like.
Speaker 1:And I also think, as far as advice like assume things are going to go wrong, I am the ultimate optimist. But when it comes to real estate especially, I think BRRRR you have to assume that things are going to go wrong. This is the classic plan for the worst and hope for the best. So what that means is you cannot and I cannot emphasize this enough you cannot just hope that a property will appreciate Whether you think it's because of immigration, new transit lines coming in, oh, this area is just about to pop. That is not how this works. It's really, really important that you know your numbers, that you have solid exit strategies and that you're very conservative in these estimates. So that means, you know we're factoring in lower rents, higher vacancies, higher maintenance fees, adding, you know, 30 to 50% on top of what the renovation estimates are, adding more time for renovations, estimating higher holding costs, like and this you know.
Speaker 1:I said about six or seven things that could go wrong. Chances are they're probably not all going to go wrong, but probably one or two or three are going to go wrong. And so if you plan for all seven to go wrong and your property still, your deal is still going to make sense. When only one or two go wrong, you're going to be okay. But if you only plan for one or two things going wrong and you have three or four, you can put yourself in a really tough situation.
Speaker 1:And when it comes to exit, make sure you understand as well, like know your numbers and also I kind of alluded to it but know what your financing exit is going to look like. How long do you have to hold a property before you can refinance? What is your LTV going to look like? Different communities have different and different asset classes have different percentages. I've been throwing around 75% but, like I said, sometimes it's lower, sometimes it's higher, and make sure that what your deal is going to make will make sense with not just current interest rates, but also if interest rates go up again and make sure you're still going to fit your DCR. So these are all things that have always been important, but I think they're even more so important right now, as we're seeing so many shifts and so many changes in the economy, in the markets. Those are things that can really help when it comes to using the BRRRR to scale your portfolio.
Speaker 2:And you brought up a good point. Having multiple exit strategies or exits planned is a must, because that's going to make the difference If you continue scaling or if you do, like what's happening now and some investors are are busting because they over leverage themselves, you know, or have just one or or two exit strategies. So that brings us to our third question. So your portfolio are? I believe you invested in three different provinces in canada, right?
Speaker 1:so far yes.
Speaker 2:When it comes to challenges because we talked about challenges, right, it's going to happen how do you navigate the differences in regulations, the difference markets that you invested in across these regions that you are in?
Speaker 1:Well, I want to share with you a funny story, and Troy always hates when I tell this, lovingly hates it. But I remember distinctly. There was a time when we were just had our first door. We were talking about what we wanted to do next with our capital and he said to me I don't think I could ever invest where I don't live. And he's like I just can't imagine not being able to drive across town and just plunge that toilet or do whatever thing. Troy's very, very, very handy. And it's so funny because now, fast, do whatever thing. Troy's very, very, very handy. And it's so funny because now, fast forward 10 years, 12 years from that first conversation. Our closest property is a four-hour drive and our farthest is a 54-hour drive if you take the shortcut through the US. So we've made a giant flip in this, and so I share that, because I think a lot of people feel very nervous to invest in other places they don't know. And I just want to say we've been there, we know what that's like and there's hope on the other side.
Speaker 1:So what I've learned in my years of investing is that markets are changing and opportunities are always changing. Society's evolving, so we've moved provinces as the trends, as the regulations and as the opportunities have changed. So, for example, we were in Alberta. We ended up exiting out of Alberta, I guess actually 10 years ago now. We then started investing in BC. We don't have an investment in BC again Now we're investing in New Brunswick. So I think it's important to remember that, like these things are going to change and that's why I think being able to invest remotely is such a key skill for investors. Otherwise, can you imagine if you're always like the whole point of investing, in my opinion, is to have the life that you want to live and if you're constantly tied to investing where you live, you're going to miss out on opportunities? Or if you're constantly like trying to move to where the opportunities are so you can live there and you can have rentals there, like, what kind of a lifestyle freedom is that? So some of the ways that we navigate those, the challenges of, like you know what's what's happening, like I'd say, we are only actively investing in one province right now. Like we, we are very conscious about getting to know market intimately and understanding it. We are exploring opportunities in one other province too, right now. Like we're seeing, okay, things are shifting in this market, let's let's look at some others and where there's opportunities, again, diversification.
Speaker 1:But the really, really, really big key to this and, I believe, to scaling our portfolio to where we have it and beyond, is to have a trusted team. We cannot be the experts in everything. We're not the experts in everything. We're so lucky and we've built solid teams. So, when it comes to picking markets, it's like finding investor-focused realtors in that market who can help guide you, help you understand about different neighborhoods, help you understand about the different nuances to investing in that market.
Speaker 1:Property managers that's another one. We have really great property managers and so we don't have to be the experts in all the regulations. I think it's really important, before you go into a market, really important to understand some of the regulations as far as, like, what do your rights look like as landlords versus tenants? What do evictions look like? What is your ability to increase rents, damage, deposits? Some of those basic things are important to know. But as far as the nuances and the day-to-day details, we're very hands-off on that. We're not dealing with that in any of the provinces or any of the markets that we're invested in, and we have a trusted team to do that. So I think that's really key.
Speaker 1:I just think it's impossible to scale without a team, and so one of the things I think we talk about really well in real estate everyone knows this is the concept of leverage. In real estate, we're borrowing other people's money whether it's the bank or other creative financing strategies to be able to invest the full amount and earn gains on the full amount. Well, I want to just remind people that you can also invest, and leverage isn't just about money, but it's also about other people's knowledge, expertise and time, and so the more that you can do that, just like you get higher returns when you're using leverage funds and also higher risk. It's the same thing with leveraging other people's talents and knowledge, and that's what we do with our team, with our property managers, our realtors. You know they're the ones that are helping guide us and and yes, there's potentially more risk because we're not overseeing every single detail, but the reward is significantly there's so much more potential and it's way less stressful, so I think that's a really big thing too.
Speaker 2:You know, you said it right Every investor I talk to. The number one advice they say is build a solid team first. This is a key point and I did it myself. Until I built a team, I did not move forward in my success. Building a team is the number one thing you must do if you want to go into real estate and be successful. You brought up a good point. Thanks Brings us to question number four. Real estate investing isn't always smooth sailing. We talked about some of the challenges, but can you share with us maybe your biggest challenge that you faced and how you were able to overcome it and maintain maybe the growth in your portfolio?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so glad you're asking this question because I think TikTok and social media has made people think that real estate is like this vending machine where you put a dollar in and it just continues to give spit cash out to you, and that's just not the reality. At least it's certainly not been our reality. So there's a couple of big challenges we face. You know, definitely in the beginning, I would say trying to do it alone. You know, we I'd heard of like people that had like 40 doors or 90 doors or a hundred doors, but we didn't really have access to those people and nor did we take the initiative to be like hey, could I like pay you for your time to learn? Like we just that wasn't even in our frame of mind and so we were just kind of figuring it out on our own.
Speaker 1:Like that was, I think, one of the biggest things that really kept us stuck. Like you know, I said that we've been investing for 12 years in different markets and different strategies but, truthfully, for the first about five or six years we only had one door. Now we changed, you know, we had, we did had something local, we did some rent to owns and we had a short-term rental. So you know, we were actively investing in doing some different things, but we weren't growing and we, we really were very stuck at that point and I think that that was a challenge we didn't even realize we were in. And I think sometimes those are the worst challenges, when you don't even realize, like how, what the potential is and how much you're limiting yourself.
Speaker 1:So to get out of that, I think first we had to realize, like you know what, like we have not actually grown, we haven't really done much in this, like we haven't been in the that's the whole word behind our community is intentional. We hadn't been intentional and you know that meant that you know, and I've done the numbers on this in a very, very conservative way like us not getting educated, us not, you know, listening to podcasts, getting mentors taking courses, working with coaches, not networking Conservative, that costs us about $10 million. That's conservative number. That's assuming that prices, that's not including, like, inflation or price increases, that's just like a straight dollar to dollar analysis. So that's, that's, that's. It's a pretty big $10 million whoopsies.
Speaker 2:It's a powerful number.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, it is. Yeah, I will take a moment and cry with my sad little violin over here Um. I'll share two other challenges that we had. So I think every time as an investor, whenever you kind of move up to the next level, there's always that scary moment of like oh, should I be doing this, should I not be? And we've had lots of those. But I think this is one of the scariest ones was buying our first big deal, so it was 13 doors. It was our first deal in New Brunswick big deal, so it was 13 doors. It was our first deal in New Brunswick, and it was set to close March 31st of 2020.
Speaker 1:And in case anybody doesn't remember what you were doing in March of 2020, let me remind you you weren't traveling on planes because the airlines were shut down. There were no sports events happening. We were all sanitizing our groceries, sanitizing our mail. You know my Troy works in the energy industry industry. Oil was negative 40 a barrel. Um. I had a speaking and coaching business. All my speaking engagements had completely dried up because we didn't have events. Our child care had been lost, um. So we had no child care, um.
Speaker 1:And then also we owned um at that time, I think we owned 10 units, uh, in bc and the bc government had just come out and said, uh, people don't have to pay rent, but you can'tict them. So we were also on the hook for now for 10 people's homes the property taxes on that, the mortgage on that, the insurance on that without any guarantee or even a promise, really frankly, just like a hope that people would actually pay us money. So it was a pretty scary place to be like. Is this the moment that we should be buying our biggest building ever Somewhere? We're like, we can't get to, we're not there, and that was a big challenge and how we overcame that.
Speaker 1:We had a very clear vision about what we wanted to create. We wanted to start being able to replace our active income with more passive income and do it sooner, and so we took that calculated risk. We understood the risk and we were also willing to lose it. We were willing that, like, if all this goes away, like let's say that, like it, let's say that entire building, like it's just, it was a terrible investment and we lose that money. We were willing to lose the money. We also had, like, built up reserves over the years. Right, this is not a short-term thing. We're talking about 12 years here. We built up some reserves so that if people stopped paying, we had some runway, we had some things in the background, and that allowed us to really stay clear on our vision, take the calculated risk and kind of just go for it and know, like you know, what we can handle it If the worst case scenario happens. We're going to be okay. Have that faith in ourselves and our ability to figure it out.
Speaker 1:The last thing I'll say is that I think the biggest challenge in the last couple of years has just been scaling really fast. Like we literally went from nine to over 90 doors in less than four years. So it was a lot. And Troy he, you know he does a lot of the work on it. I do a lot of like the networking, the strategy, the investor piece, the education, the family stuff. He's done a lot of like the nitty gritty, like bookkeeping and and keeping tabs on things, and so it's we've had to be a team along the way.
Speaker 1:We it's been a lot of time.
Speaker 1:It's been definitely some stressful moments and lots of challenges and you know there's been times where we've had literally 50 to 60 units like vacant that we've been renovating.
Speaker 1:That's a ton and that's like millions of dollars of like money going out, and so that has definitely been a challenge as far as, like you know, staying committed to the vision. You know, just like learning how to work as a team together in those moments, getting a lot of help in the like building that team, figuring out even in the household, like what does it look like to have more, more childcare? What does it look like to have someone help us with, like cleaning the house or doing dishes and things like that. What does it look like to be okay with ordering pre-made meals that make our life easier? So that's definitely been a challenge and I'm really looking forward to this next phase, which is stabilizing. So having some great systems, seeing where things are settling and now being able to optimize. What assets do we keep? Are there anything we need to sell? What can we do to optimize our portfolio? Now that we've hit this point and before we take another giant leap up, let's optimize this.
Speaker 2:Definitely what I take from that is having a plan and executing on it at the best of your ability. But definitely having a plan is a must If you want to take some challenges away. If you want to, you know, take some some challenges away. It's going to still happen, but if you have a solid plan and you're making, putting the chances on your side, you know I would.
Speaker 1:I would switch it from plan to like vision and goal, because I think what I've learned so much in the last few years and I think every you know, every investor probably can relate to this Like you can have the most, the best plan and things still change. Like you just never know what is going to happen in a market, what's going to happen you know politically, what's going to happen financially, and so I think it's really important to not be fixated on a plan but to be really committed to a goal and be open to like how that might look, to be able like to be open, like maybe the timeline needs to be extended, maybe the like you you might need to, you're probably going to need to change the plan. I don't think it's being attached to a plan. I think it's being like really committed to what you want to create and having a vision for that, having a clear goal and being willing to make the pivots, make the turns, change the plan to get where you want to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely right. That brings us to our fifth question. This one is an important one for me because I'm a big networker myself, as you are. You started the Intentional Real Estate Investing Group. You host events both in person and virtually. It is a big part of what you do. How have these events contributed to your success? And maybe what tips do you have for others looking to build relationships, genuine relationships, in the real estate industry?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think this is one answer, is going to answer both of them and I'll go into a little more detail. But really, this group has contributed to our success because we've contributed to other people's success, because we've cared about other people being successful and helping other people that a ton of information, like they get access to to redo most of our events for free Um, I get access to different experts and guest speakers and knowledge and information. There's so much of that. There's also deals Like there's multiple people that have that have been like I can't finish this deal, do you want it? Like pass off deals. There's some people that have gotten partnerships um, you know, joint venture partnerships or private lending uh, creative financing strategies. Through this, there's been people that people learn about, like new markets so I had never thought about that, or I never thought about like this type of asset class, like people are learning about different ideas and hearing from people that are actually doing it.
Speaker 1:And I think also the last one is confidence Like people in our community know that they're not alone, they know that there's somewhere to turn, that they're like yes, there's ups and downs and and that we're all like wanting to do this. And I think sometimes, if you go into the outside world like whenever I kind of share with people, like, oh, you know, we were hoping to replace our income in so many years, whatever that is people are like what? Like that's crazy, is that possible? But within the community, like everything is possible and we're here, like everyone has big dreams, everyone has goals, everyone's doing cool things, and I think there's a lot of confidence that comes from from that. So, of course, in that, like that benefits us too. You know, we've gotten deals, we've gotten partnerships, we we've learned a lot in the process, and so I think, because we've helped other people, that helps us. So that kind of leads to that leads to, you know, tips for building genuine relationships.
Speaker 1:I think the first thing is and I love that you added the word genuine, because I think that's really important At the end of the day, we're all humans and I think you can just be a human. I don't think it has to be overthought. I think you know, come with enthusiasm, be a real person, speak authentically and be who you are. That's one of the biggest keys. And I also think focusing on serving other people and adding value first. I think I don't know if you get this, mario. But we get a lot of people like can I pick your brain, can I take you for coffee, can I do this? And it's like no, not because I don't like you, not because I don't want to, but because we're really busy. We have a young family, we have big business that we've built, we have also hobbies and things that we want to, and so we we just don't have time to do all those things, and so it's really important that, like you don't just come and like want to take from other people, but you're willing to give first.
Speaker 1:Even if you're brand new to real estate investing. Like think about what other experience you have. Maybe you're great at marketing. Maybe you have a wide network of connections. Maybe you worked in the insurance industry. Maybe you worked in construction. Maybe you still work in construction. Maybe you're really handy. Maybe you're an interior designer and you're great with design. Like maybe you're a project manager and you're great. You can help someone, like lay out tasks. Like think about what skill sets, knowledge you have, even if it's not like directly I've been invested in X number of properties over this many years. Like there's something that you have and then remember to bring value, give people ideas if they're asking for it. Offer advice, offer connections like, hey, can I connect you to this property manager or this amazing potential private lender or can I connect you to this realtor? Offer connections, offer resources. Is there a great podcast you listen to, like this one, for example? Is there a?
Speaker 1:great event coming up, your cruise event. Offer resources, offer events. I literally have none of these things. I have nothing. I know nothing.
Speaker 1:Offer accountability. We all need accountability. Just be like hey, do you want to be accountability buddies? Let's do it for the next three months. Like we both said, we're going to take action Like let's you know whether it's meeting you know once a week for 20 minutes to go over accountability, whether it's texting each other on a Monday morning and texting it on a Friday to see how it went. Like accountability is a really easy thing that anybody can do and everybody needs. That's a great way to add value.
Speaker 1:And I think the last piece I would say is that just remember that you're always networking because all you are is connecting to people.
Speaker 1:So you know there's definitely so much value in going to real estate focused events and I'm not trying to diminish that at all.
Speaker 1:But, like you know, we've gotten clients and deals and opportunities from, like going to the beach, from we have people that we met in Cuba. I have asking you to bring your whole humanity into networking. Remember that the other way too, that you're always an investor and you're always working towards whatever your vision is, whether it's being able to retire a few years earlier, whether it's wanting to create side income to donate to a philanthropic, something that's important to you in terms of a cause, whether it's wanting to pass on generational wealth, that's a part of you too. So you don't have to like leave that aside when you're having fun in regular life too, like you could pull that in too and you just never know what kind of conversations you have, what kind of connections you're going to make and how you're going to build those relationships, whether you're specifically at a real estate event or not. So remember you're human. Bring all parts of you, be willing to add value to other people and have fun with it.
Speaker 2:Lisa, it was a pleasure to have you on the show on the podcast, Learned so much and I hope that our listeners will take as much as I did from you today.
Speaker 1:Thank you for being on the show. Yeah, I hope so too. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 2:We'll talk soon. Take care. Thanks for tuning into the 5 Questions Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, like and hit the notification bell on our YouTube channel so you never miss an episode. Stay tuned for more insights and tips to transform your real estate and business game. See you next time.